Zac Clark Interview
Zac Clark at Beak & Skiff Orchard
Cassidy Rose: What music have you been listening to in your free time now that tour is over?
Zac Clark: Ooh! - Great question and one that I am always so stupefied by because it seems I forget as soon as someone asked me the question. I’ll be like listening to records and I’ll be like - “Remember this the next time someone asks you that easy question!” I’ve been listening to the new Arctic Monkey’s record I caught them at Kings Theatre in Brooklyn like three weeks ago or so. Kind of last minute got to see them and I’ve loved a lot of their records over the years, but I was blown away by the show, so I got pretty into the new record. I am – Gosh what am I listening to? - I’ve been listening to the new Daniel Lanois record – instrumental, largely piano stuff and it’s really gorgeous! That’s like right in my lane right now. The new Augustana record, Dan Layus’s like full on piano concerto collection, it’s incredible, and I keep picking that one back up and just having my mind blown by it. You know, I just saw my old friend Trevor Larkin last night play some original music and I was blown away by that. I toured with him with Allen Stone, and we just were immediate homies and to see him bloom as a songwriter and to hear his voice – and I heard him with an eight-piece string section just down the street here in Nashville and I was like: “That was mind blowing!” Those are kind of like the highlight reel for me right now. There are so many others – it’s crazy. Like there’s a new Caroline Rose song out, she’s like a dear friend but I am also just an obsessive super fan of.
CR: Post-pandemic you have been out on two back-to-back Andrew McMahon Tours once as an opener and then more recently back in the band. Describe the differences in those two touring journeys!
ZC: Oh my god – how much time we got here Cassidy!? I mean there’s the obvious ones, right, I mean the billing – I was there as me supporting a record and that was such a beautiful gift that Andrew has given to me several times now in different contexts and at different levels. But what a platform to have your friend believe in your music enough to give you a slot and of all times right after kind of announcing a step back from that project. So it was beautiful to do that year of 2021 where we had a couple of full band opening shows with Andrew and the gang with Morgan on keys and the full band and I got to stand there and do the thing - that like me and my band mates since I was like not old enough to go to most of the bars we were playing – we always dreamed jokingly of it – like the only thing that sucks about this band is that I can’t watch it – you know I can’t see these other guys play. So, I got to live that dream in a couple of different contexts where I was just like: “I’m a fan – I’m just a fucking huge fan of all of those people and of Andrew’s catalogue!” And, that’s where I started, and that’s who I am and that’s why I’m there in the first place on a lot of levels. And then to get the call from Andrew after hanging out with him in the studio when he was working in LA and I was out premiering a film that I scored with a few friends – when I got that call it was just like: “Yea let’s definitely go on tour together and I will definitely sit back down in the seat that Morgan has vacated to go tour the world with Ashe!” You know, there was now question. And I think for a variety of reasons, for all of us, personally and professionally, there was this renewed vigor to the whole enterprise. It felt like a new thing, it felt like a second chance to view something differently, and maybe for me it intuitively felt like I was back in the role of super fan but getting to sick back at the keys and sing along and fill the role differently than I ever have before. So, one fed the other I guess you could say!
CR: You also just got to be onstage as a part of the Something Corporate reunion for Andrew’s 40th Birthday Celebration what was that experience like?
ZC: Well, it’s wild because on one level, like, I had done that before. I can’t remember what year it was, but I think we were also in Southern California. I want to say we were at The Observatory for a Dear Jack one year. All the guys came, and we rehearsed together, and we did the thing and I love those guys, you know, like they’re such sweet dudes. And I *definitely* am like a super fan from the beginning you know, I was there for all those shows. And yet, I think because we never, I don’t know, we were so deep into it even by that point four or five years ago, it was natural, it was just like a bunch of dudes having a play. And this time though there was something so special about it because it was this like marking of time. We had been on a tour that was to me largely about, for the bands at least- and I talked to Carrabba and Andrew and a bunch of our various band mates who’ve been in both of those bands for, you know, long, long, stretches of time- about metabolizing nostalgia in a different way. You know what I mean? Like there’s a tug I think for any number of us, and I know surely for Andrew and Chris as the purveyors of nostalgia on this trip, you know, at least that’s the gist with the tour, you know, or it’s *a* gist of the tour. There’s a sense that like you might pull back from that or it might be like you don’t want to look back too much. And as a songwriter I think we’re always like we’re so thrilled to get the next thing that some people really shy away from looking back and I think we all got this beautiful sense of liken- no, wait, this is such a celebration - these are songs that give us, and other people access to the beautiful bits of looking back. Celebrating our times together, celebrating how long it’s been that we’ve known each other. In this particular instance, celebrate that we can go to shows at all, that this a thing that we can gather together and make a collective hum together. And so, all that said when Andrew called me the day of the show, I knew the Something Corporate guys were coming, and I knew it was going to be a thing and like a big part of the set. And then the day of, often this happens, I get a call from Andrew and he’s like: “I got an idea, I was thinking, would you be down to come a few hours early for a separate rehearsal soundcheck with the guys?” And it was a no questions asked: “Of course, yea I’m down if the guys want me.” But, like I really made a point to get in touch with the younger self in me at that point and like take the ride with that feeling, you know, and I had tears in my eyes in certain points of that set. Namely during Konstantine because it was the first song that I had ever heard that was Andrews. It was a song that I listened to with my mom before she passed away and it was a song that we both, I remember vividly, her looking at me and being like: “that’s someone cool to listen to.” Among this sea of bands that, no names need be named, didn’t really resonate with, like, my parents and they didn’t long resonate with me the way that a voice like Andrew’s and a songwriting voice like his resonated. So, there was a lot to hold there and a lot to let go but a lot to just open up to in that experience that was different from the first time where I was like: “Whatever man, we’re in a band together, and this the other part of the band and these are the other songs, and yea I’ll play, I’ll sing!” This time it was a spiritual experience intentionally and it felt like everybody was really buzzing with that excitement. I mean, you know, all that said, it’s pretty trippy and it’s an intimate thing to be like the *other* guy that’s in with all the guys who’ve had this experience that none of us could really know; what it’s like to be in your high school band touring the entire world the way they did. So, it’s an honor on a lot of levels and it was good work, you know, it was good spiritual work, it felt like.
CR: And you just got matching bestie tattoos with Andrew on that more recent tour - tell us that story!
ZC: Oh, you know, Andrew got a real bee in his bonnet about new tattoos on that tour and he got me all excited. I was pretty jealous, he got a beautiful custom piece from an Artist here in Nashville, who has since moved to Chicago, I guess. But he got that during rehearsals, and I was like: “*Ooh* I want a new tattoo - it’s been a while!” It had been years. And then we had this really beautiful night after rehearsals one night in Nashville at my AirBnb sitting on the porch in this like ever impending but never there thunderstorm. We were listening to Tom Petty, we were listening to Room at the Top, I remember at the time, and just talking about Tom and how much his guidance has continued and does continue to inspire us. And just thinking about how great that record is, and he made it when he was like fifty years old or something like that, you know, and it’s when, I think, he really got good, in his forties and fifties. We were having this beautiful time and I remember at some point saying that line, I remember it from the You Don’t Know How It Feels Demo, and from Crawling Back to You I believe is the name of it. But it’s “Most things I worry about never happen anyway…” And we were both like: “Aw, that’d be a great tattoo!” And then we were like: “We should get it together!” And then our merch guy Danny Samet’s dear friend came out to do tattoos one day in Ohio and we were like “Let’s do it!” You know, we both got it, and it was lovely because I got mine kind of like on my wrist where like a person who cares about time would have a watch and so I can look at it. I can see it and I have gotten to see it for two or three months now, or whatever it’s been, in these wild moments where worry has really gotten to me and I look at it and I’m like: “What are ya gonna do, ya know, don’t worry, it’ll happen or it won’t, let go, ya know!” So, it was good and me and Andrew I think we’re kindred spirits, he, and I, in a journey of worry and journey of control, or lack thereof over the outcome of what we do or what our work is or could be and this era of our friendship and our collaboration feels like that snapped representation of it. Like, hey, when I’m worrying, he’s like: “You know what I say about most things I worry about!” And when I catch him worrying, I’m like: “Hey!” *Displays tattooed wrist* You know, like reminders, just fellow reminders of “Hey! Get out of your head, get out of your way, let it happen!”
CR: You did some work on the score of a feature film, The Aviary. What was your approach to such a large-scale project, and would you consider more of that type of work in the future?
ZC: Oh yea. The conversations continue on, and I’m like chomping at the bit to do another one. I mean, it’s, the scale is *immense* - the scale and the timeline. For this one because it ran right into the day before I had to leave for the fall tour last year, like -*the day* - you know, I packed up the studio in a rain storm, put it in my van and ran to storage, then slept on the floor of the place where I made my self-titled record, my buddy Joe’s studio, and then I left for Austin the next morning. And so, the scale and the timeline dictated like kind of two paths, two options, which were: freak out and get worried and get in the weeds on a bunch of things and, like, stress or just say yes to every note and throw everything at it and know that it’s going to be done when it’s done and like have some trust, exercise some trust in yourself and the people that you’re collaborating with. And for me, what a dream, because those are two of my favorite writers and people and directors and Chris, one of the two writers and directors, he emailed me when we were seventeen, eighteen years old and was like: “Hey, I’m a film student at Emerson College and I get to do a final project where I direct a music video and I wanna direct one for you, I’ve been listening to you for years.” Which meant he had been listening to me since I was like thirteen- or fourteen-years old cause I just put stuff on the internet and sometimes connected with people. And Chris directed my first music video. A lot of the crew from that music video was on this movie and they’ve all gone on to do these incredible things in film and every angle around the camera. So, it was just, it was magic to begin with and that held a responsibility but also permission. An invitation and permission of like these are your family so when they want more, it’s because they know you have more. And when they want different it’s because they know it doesn’t really matter if you scrap the other thing and do something different. It’s going to get done, you know, there was tremendous trust and I love long form like wild, weird, avant-garde shit. That’s kind of like, it’s like, a large percentage of what I’m listening to at any given time because pop music is my affliction as much as it is my occupation. So, I’m going to have a pop song rolling around in my head even if I’m not working in that realm that day. So, when it comes time to turn something on, I’m often like cool give me something meandering, give me something that, like, makes me be patient, and does the opposite of what a pop song does often. You know- do less, just be mood, just be color, just be a timbre that suggests something…but it was great, it was great! It’s opened up some conversations with other friends and other collaborators. Like I’m open for business on that front and it’s a thrill for me and if the timing can work out and the goal is succinct and connected with what I’m doing or what I can provide it’s really exciting. I look forward, I think, to doing something that might hover away from the darker suspenseful world so I can kind of play more into the middle of what my pop music does and what I like to do with instrumental music. So, we’ll see, we’ll see!
CR: You are a bit of a traveler, tell us a bit about your van life the last few years…
ZC: Yea, well, you know, the rumors of my van life are greatly exaggerated. Well, you know, it’s like, I’ve had it since, like, 2016 and, a couple of friends and I, mostly my friends who are a lot handier than I built it out. It kind of looks like this room in my house that is going to be my studio. I have a thing; you know, I clearly have a type. Yea, I mean, it’s a vibe. It kind of like it’s this vibey little mini guest room on wheels and I’ve toured around the country in it solo for shows. I’ve just driven it from place to place and camped along the way. It was just a thing that seemed like I wanted to have that in my life. It’s the only car I have so during the pandemic, high pandemic I would say, you know, late 2020, I just kind of, I got a wild hare I guess you could say, about uprooting everything. And I sold my house, and I hopped in the van, and I was like: “Fuck it!” You know, it was a wild moment that took me a lot of places. I got to spend a month at Allen Stone and his family’s house, making a Christmas movie at the end of that year. We kind of did the precautionary testing and bubbled up for a month or so in Washington during the wintertime. And I got to spend a month at my band mate Jay and his wife Jessie’s place while they were on the East Coast, I stayed in their house in LA. And I lived in a hotel for a month in Providence, Rhode Island. I stayed with some family in Westerly, Rhode Island. I was in Texas for a little while, yeah, I was just all over the place and as these journeys tend to, in fiction and real life, I kind of circled back around and was like: “Well, where I started was pretty sweet!” And I think about it every day, like, I think I wanted to push the button that everyone told me I might not need to push. You know, I needed to uproot things, I needed to just, like fly free for a second and not know where I was going to land, and it was lovely, but I’m thrilled to be making a home again and to have a place to return to. Cause that’s what I learned I think, it’s so silly sounding and simple, but when you want to move, or you want to shake things up sometimes you just want to shake yourself up and you might actually not need to go anywhere. And if you do want to go somewhere, remember that going somewhere is only really fun if you have some semblance of a place to root back to when you’ve returned or else, you’re forever in motion, and that’s lovely too, I’ve done it as a lifestyle, as a career, sort of.
CR: And I heard you might be settling down to a more permanent settlement, how do you expect that change of pace might affect you creatively?
ZC: Well, funny enough, I’m like, first, I would say when I first walked into my house after tour and after some long winded rambling after the tour, I was instantly, I told a bunch of my songwriter friends about this, like, I could feel all of a sudden, like my body, it’s kind of, this is a weird example, I guess, but I think we can all relate; it’s almost like when you get to your driveway, and you have to pee, you suddenly have to pee a lot more, and then you get to your door the feeling intensifies. And I got to door here, and it was like *gasps* - “I love making songs - there’s reverb in all of these rooms because there’s nothing in them yet!” and “I’m dying to make something - Oh My God!” But then I had to really kind of like enjoy that and know that each step would happen as it happened and, you know, the piano’s finally here and that’s a wild, wild step. But honestly the other thing about the question is, like, I haven’t stopped moving since tour and I leave this weekend for a show in Austin with my buddy Will who is having me in his backyard for the fourth year in a row playing a backyard concert for his fledgling festival Travis County Limits. So, I leave for that and then I am going up to New York for a little bit and then heading to Chicago from there for Dear Jack and then it’s the holidays and there’s a lot of Northeast for me for family time. And, um, so I don’t really feel like I’ve slowed down, and in fact, I’m learning more with this continued post-tour travel; gigs have come up, things have come up that required a “Yes” from me for beautiful people and for beautiful endeavors. I’m like “Oh my god, I’d be thrilled to be a part of that, I don’t have any time really, but I’m going to make it!” And I’ve been making some of my favorite music that I’ve ever made because of time limits and because of, like: “Well, we’ve got this one day, I don’t know if it’s the right day but let’s do it!” You know, like today, I recorded a bunch of background vocals and played bass on a song, that I wrote when I was fifteen or sixteen years old, that an old friend of mine, that I’ve known since we were probably thirteen or so, he’s covering it, and he’s made this beautiful new arrangement of the song and wanted me to, kind of like, reprise my role in the song as we both remembered it from when I was a little kid, when we were little kids. You know, we were texting over the weekend, and I was like I got three days this week and I got three days next week, and then I was like: “Oh wait, I have a piano mover appointment and I’ve got a refrigerator and a washer and dryer showing up, and, oh, there’s a couch coming, you know, stuff is just like getting moved in.” So, like we picked a three-hour window and - God I just love a deadline now! There’s something so beautiful about being like: “Yea, I got these two days, and I will believe that whatever inspiration is supposed to come to me will be there in that moment and I will show up for it should it be willing.”
So, you’re in and out of the studio - any future new music or even a full album on the horizon?
ZC: Oh, for sure! Yea, my like, my LP5 “note” or “folder” or “file” on my phone is like, it’s looking a lot like the Holy Shit one did right at the top of the mountain or the roller-coaster, in that I’ve started to really notice that there’s like fifteen song babies that are just kind like, they’re in all these different shapes or states, I guess. But there’s demos, there’s full productions, there’s a couple of things that were written and begun before Holy Shit that just we not, they immediately were like: “I’m not at that party, that’s another party for me!” So, there’s a lot of stuff, I got to write a song with my forever band mate Jeremy Hatcher, who I imagine you’ve met over the years, who just did incredible work on the new Harry Styles’ record, the new Maggie Rogers’ record, and on the new Andrew McMahon in the Wilderness record, and he’s just such a lovely dude. We had not gotten a chance in his busy schedule and my, admittedly, similarly ridiculous schedule over the years to sit down and write anything since we wrote You Can’t Talk Trust and I Am a Guest almost ten years ago and we got to sit down right at the beginning of that last tour last fall, and we wrote one of my favorite songs that I have ever written. And, yea, there’s a lot in there and it just comes down to now; what’s the moment? You know, I have a lot of ideas for what the record wants to be, but I have a feeling because I’ve like reached a mountain top of going back to my childhood and making a record pretty much entirely by myself. So, recently I’m like, alright this time I don’t want to be too precious about how the demos are I want to just get songs really tightly arranged and bring my all-star band together, like, bring everybody into a room and make a really loud rock-n-roll odyssey of some sort. You know, and, yea, I’m just excited about playing with people, that’s the main thing for me right now. But we’ll see when the moment comes, and, it’s always further along than I think - so we’ll see!
Zac Clark at Beak & Skiff Orchard
Zac Clark at Beak & Skiff Orchard
